Cold Open on Who Knows You
Jason Miller 0:00
Yeah, the algorithm itself is relatively objective with subjective input.
Why Your Feed Feels Psychic
Makenzie Wirth 0:14
Welcome back to another episode of Journey to ESOP & Beyond. I’m your co-host today, Makenzie Wirth.
Jason Miller 0:20
And I’m Jason Miller.
Makenzie Wirth 0:22
Today, we have a unique topic we are discussing—an interesting one, I think. It is not directly related to ESOPs, but you know, we’ll find a way to tie them in.
Jason and I are just going to have a conversation. I’m going to pepper him with some questions, and we’ll see where this goes.
Our first question, or I guess our question to start the conversation and maybe clue you into where this will be going, is: Jason, who do you think knows what you are thinking about the most?
Jason Miller 1:03
There are the safe answers, which is my wife probably knows what I’m thinking about the most.
And then the things that I may not necessarily want her to know I’m thinking about probably go to my therapist.
And I at least know what I’m thinking about, whether there is any reason attached to that, God only knows.
But that is where I would start about who knows what I’m thinking about the most.
Makenzie Wirth 1:35
In this day and age, I think a lot of us spend probably more time than we would like on our phones.
Or maybe it’s your iPad, or maybe it’s your laptop, but I think the most common one is probably your phone.
The trick question here—or I guess the answer to the trick question—is the algorithm.
Jason Miller 2:13
Which is kind of scary, right?
Makenzie Wirth 2:18
It is scary.
I think oftentimes we’re having conversations with people, or sometimes I even feel like I’m just thinking about something, and next thing I know I see it on my Instagram feed.
Or maybe it’s YouTube or Twitter, if Twitter—I don’t even know, I don’t use Twitter, whatever it is now, X.
Whatever your preferred social media platform is, there is going to be an algorithm.
The Algorithm as a Mirror
Jason Miller 2:58
I think one of the important things to talk about is that the algorithm itself is relatively objective with subjective inputs.
It is fascinating to me.
In and of itself, it is not moral. It is not truthful or untruthful. It does not have some nefarious intelligence behind it that is seeking to make changes in your life.
It is really demanding one thing from you, and that is your attention.
It gathers enough information to be somewhat diagnostic, and it reveals that my particular priorities may be the things I’m most afraid of, because of what I’m trying to seek answers on or whatever questions I might have rattling around in this brain.
Makenzie Wirth 4:13
Yeah, you could even say your algorithm is essentially a mirror.
Maybe it is not a perfect mirror, but I think it is an honest one because, as you said, it is taking subjective inputs and creating outputs.
Every day you have inputs—maybe through your words, if you are listening, but also through other actions, such as when you are scrolling through Instagram.
What makes you stop scrolling and spend more time on a specific post? Are you replaying the same video? Are you sharing that video?
You are giving it information, which helps your algorithm, and eventually it becomes a mirror of where your thoughts are and where your attention is.
Jason Miller 5:18
Listeners, here is the plug for you, knowing now whether you were aware of this before or not.
Watch this episode again and some others, and then share them, like them, comment, and provide some other content for us to come back and revisit.
Jason Miller 5:35
But that whole idea, as we are exploring it, is that what it is really capturing apart from your attention is your emotional energy.
You are going to spend your calories and your time on the things that are most important to you or the things that are most pressing.
And I guess we tend to become the things that we repeatedly pay attention to.
Makenzie Wirth 6:01
Yeah, so maybe your feed is less about what you really like and more about where your attention currently is.
So, Jason, what have you noticed in your feed lately in your algorithm?
Jason Miller 6:17
I knew you were going to ask. Just run an experiment and see.
Jason Reads His Recommended Articles
Jason Miller 6:25
The thing I find most interesting is whenever I go to Google, it presents me with articles that it thinks I’m going to be interested in, based on what I read, what I click on, or what I search.
So let’s just go through a couple.
The first one is a Forbes article that says, “What Leaders Often Miss About Psychological Safety.”
That is followed by “Apple TV’s Sci-Fi Hit Is Streaming’s Best News Show, and It Differs From the Books.” I don’t know what that is, but it seems pretty interesting.
“Labor Force Participation Falls to 61.5%.” That is a Yahoo Finance article.
“10 Greatest Sci-Fi Thrillers of the 20th Century.”
“Physics: Evidence Mounts for Hierarchical Black Hole Mergers.”
Makenzie Wirth 7:25
Why are these all very Jason?
Jason Miller 7:29
At least you know I’m honest about the things I’m interested in or what I talk about.
“Three Effective Things to Start Doing for Your Self-Confidence and Personal Growth.” That is pretty interesting.
And “Best Cities to Invest in Real Estate in 2026.”
Makenzie Wirth 7:46
I like it. Very different from mine currently.
Jason Miller 7:52
Well, I won’t ask you, but if you want to share, feel free.
Makenzie Wirth 7:58
I think we’ll get into it, but I think what our algorithms say is maybe Jason is not obsessed with things like physics and real estate.
Maybe it is that Jason is trying to understand, trying to solve, and trying to prepare.
Those are very different than simply being obsessed with whatever your algorithm is giving you.
Seasons of Life Shape Algorithms
Makenzie Wirth 8:31
I think the overall theme is that we all have different algorithms, and these different algorithms reveal different seasons—whatever season we are in.
Mine is very different from Jason’s.
I guess this is a good time to tell our listeners that I am expecting. I will be on maternity leave at the end of August.
My algorithm is a lot about car seats, sleep training, and anything baby-related.
Not that I am not interested in learning and solving problems outside of that or bettering myself in other areas, but my current season of life that is taking over right now is our baby who is on the way.
So what would you say it looks like for an entrepreneur or a business owner?
What Business Owners Usually See
Jason Miller 9:37
I imagine that for many people there are going to be links to articles about sales.
You are going to have the endless “do this course to do this thing to maximize revenue” or “increase revenue per employee.”
Cash flow is king. Cash is king. Find new ways to stretch dollars further in a season of growth or a season of contraction.
I can practically guarantee that every entrepreneur has something showing up in their feed related to using AI in the workplace.
I also imagine there are going to be things related to leadership—how to deal with toxic employees, how to attract superstars.
Basically, all of those things are asking, “How am I carrying my business?”
Makenzie Wirth 10:43
I think one other interesting point is that sometimes your algorithm may catch things before you do.
Maybe it helps you realize something you are subconsciously thinking about, which comes to fruition through whatever you are teaching your algorithm.
Then you realize, “Oh, I did not realize I was thinking about this until this content started dominating my feed.”
Jason Miller 11:22
I like that perspective because it is very true.
It is funny how you mentioned seasons because six to nine months ago, I went through a season of reviewing investments.
Every video that showed up or was recommended was about personal finance and investment strategies.
I had all kinds of different content providers showing me that information.
I was thinking about it the other day. My YouTube feed is a little different now.
That shifted toward other personal pursuits and away from investing as I have taken my kids back to karate training. I was absent for a number of years.
Now what shows up in my YouTube algorithm is a bunch of karate videos all over the place.
I remember the feeling of thinking, “This is how old I am,” and then thinking about the time value of money and doing the math.
I thought, “I have to keep moving. I have to make these changes.”
That pressure has shifted now. Whether or not I correctly adopted those things, time will tell.
But my focus has shifted to something else.
I think that is fascinating—how it can help shape our anxiety and demand our attention back to the core premise of what it reveals about us.
Curiosity Versus Doom Scrolling
Makenzie Wirth 13:12
I think it can be healthy, but we also know it can be unhealthy in terms of doom scrolling.
If you are constantly consuming rather than doing or putting things into action, or if you are just looking for validation, those are obviously the unhealthy sides.
It is about finding the balance where it is healthy—where you are learning, growing, and applying what you are learning to your life without letting it completely consume you.
Jason Miller 13:56
One thing that has been consistent for me throughout my career is remaining curious and encouraging other people to explore their curiosity.
That has great benefits in this age where we have access to so much information and now also interpretation, to some extent, with AI.
But not compulsion.
I like this line: curiosity expands you, but compulsion shrinks you.
As we talk through the healthy and unhealthy elements of what the algorithm reveals about you, we all know doom scrolling.
I also like the phrase “outrage scrolling.” I do not know if that is new to me or if it is something that has always existed, but it usually happens between August and November every other year and every four years in a much greater capacity for many people.
The idea is: what is going to invoke this great feeling in me of being angry about everything or certain things specifically? Is that healthy?
The answer is that it is unlikely to be healthy for you.
If I feel a compulsion to click on every politically charged article or video, it is probably going to have a negative impact on my demeanor and my approach to life for a period of time.
Using Your Feed for Exit Planning
Makenzie Wirth 15:36
So how can we tie this all into our audience and business owners looking at a potential exit, whether that is an ESOP or they know for sure it is an ESOP?
What should they do with their algorithm?
Jason Miller 15:58
I am of two minds on this because I was thinking about it as we were exploring this topic.
What shows up in your feed? Is it tennis tricks, pickleball tournaments, boating, and golf—all the things historically tied to, “If I had more time in my life, where would I spend it?”
Is that indicative of whether you are ready to divert your attention away from driving sales, building the next generation of leadership within your company, improving margins, or dealing with how AI is going to integrate into your life?
Your attention is saying, “Apply me over here.”
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I do not know.
I think it would be more telling if most of your feed is things like:
“How do I deal with a toxic employee?”
“How do I fire my best friend?”
“How do I get out from underneath a mountain of debt?”
Those things are particular to seasons.
Each of you will be in a different spot. Maybe you do need to spend more time out west. Maybe you need to think about a longer vacation.
Maybe your articles are saying, “How do I quit my business without quitting my business?”
Some of the things we have talked about are not becoming a leadership bottleneck.
It would be disingenuous to say, “Just start searching a bunch of things that make your algorithm look good when you show up on a podcast, and your co-host asks you to reveal what is on your phone.”
Do not do that.
That does not serve anyone. It does not solve anything for you.
What I would encourage you to think about is what deserves your attention and how you curate your attention.
If you have not given much thought to how to chart your exit from ownership and how to transition ownership to someone else, start paying attention to that.
Eventually, the algorithm is going to follow your attention. Your habits are going to follow what the algorithm influences you to see. Then your life is going to follow those habits.
Makenzie Wirth 18:41
That is very true.
A Practical Attention Inventory
Makenzie Wirth 18:44
I think a practical exercise for our listeners is to open your most-used app, whether that is Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, or whatever it is.
Take note of the first few videos or posts that pop up.
Is that where your attention really is?
What percentage of your attention is going toward the different categories you come across?
Ask yourself: Is this where I actually want to be headed? Is this where I want my life to be headed? Is this where I want my attention to be focused?
Jason Miller 19:33
That is going to be a challenging inventory for me, Makenzie.
Makenzie Wirth 19:41
I think the moral of everything is that algorithms do not necessarily tell us who we are. They tell us where our attention has been.
Our attention over time becomes intention, which becomes habit, which becomes character.
Rather than asking yourself, “Why is my algorithm showing me this?” maybe ask, “What have I been teaching it about the person I am becoming?”
Jason Miller 20:16
Just to remind listeners about their own agency in an age of influence: view the algorithm not as some insidious intelligence trying to curate you.
It is not a villain.
It is a dashboard.
And as a dashboard, it is a tool, not a destiny.
It is not saying, “This is who you are destined to be.” It is showing you what is in that emotional mirror and telling you where you are headed.
If it reveals that you do not like the direction, maybe you have smashed your GPS before, after taking a wrong turn and getting far off course.
But normally you just change how you drive and the direction you are headed.
There is time and room for you to do that.
I do not want you to think social media is bad, but we want you to be aware and increase your intention because ultimately that is what gives you more power in choosing what you want your future to be rather than drifting into it.
Makenzie Wirth 21:42
A lot of food for thought today.
Jason Miller 21:46
This was fun. These are usually the good ones when you ask me questions.
Makenzie Wirth 21:51
More fun for me.
Closing and Listener Invitation
Makenzie Wirth 21:56
Thank you to our listeners. Feel free to interact with us at journey2anesop.com.
Let us know if you like these types of episodes and what you want to hear from us.
Subscribe, like, share with a friend, and thank you for joining us.
We will see you next week.
