EP28 - Your Algorithm is a Mirror

Your feed feels personal for a reason, and it’s not magic. Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth dig into the idea that the “algorithm” isn’t a villain with a secret agenda. It’s an objective system built on subjective inputs, and the input it cares about most is your attention. We share real snapshots from our own algorithms and what they might mean beneath the surface: curiosity, problem-solving, preparation, anxiety, and the very human need to reduce uncertainty. Then we connect it directly with business owners, founders, and leaders considering exit planning, including ESOP conversations. Our takeaway is that the algorithm is a dashboard, not a destiny, and attention becomes intention, intention becomes habit, and habit becomes character.

Transcript

Cold Open On Who Knows You

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Yeah, the the algorithm itself is relatively objective with uh subjective input.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Welcome

Why Your Feed Feels Psychic

SPEAKER_00 0:14

back to another episode of Journey to an Aesop and Beyond. I'm your co-host today, McKenzie Ward.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

And I'm Jason Miller.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

And today we have a unique topic we are discussing, an interesting one, I think. It is not directly related to Aesops, but you know, we'll find a way to tie them in. So Jason and I are just gonna have a conversation. I'm gonna pepper him with some questions and we'll we'll see where this goes. Our first question, or I guess our question to start the conversation and maybe clue you into where this will be going is Jason, who do you think knows what you are thinking about the most?

SPEAKER_03 1:03

There's the safe answers, which is my my wife probably knows what I'm thinking the most. And then the things that I may not necessarily want her to know I'm thinking about probably goes to my therapist. And you know, I I I at least to know what I'm thinking, whether there's any reason attached to that, God only knows. But that that's where I'd start about who knows what I'm thinking about the most.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

So in this in this day and age, I think a lot of us spend probably more time than we would like on our phones. Or maybe it's your iPad, or maybe it's your laptop, but I think the most common one is probably your phone. So the trick question here, or I guess the answer to the trick trick question is the answer is the algorithm.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Which is kind of kind of scary, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

It is scary. I think oftentimes we're having conversations with people, or we're sometimes I even feel like I'm just thinking about something, and next thing I know I see it on my Instagram feed. Or maybe it's YouTube or Twitter, if if Twitter, I don't even I don't use Twitter, whatever it is now, X. Whatever your social media platform that you prefer most. I'll have an algorithm.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

So

The Algorithm As A Mirror

SPEAKER_03 2:58

what I I think one of the things that's important is the to talk about is that the algorithm itself is relatively objective with subjective inputs. It's just it's fascinating to me. So it in in and of itself, it it it's not moral, it's not truthful or untruthful, and it it doesn't have some uh nefarious intelligence behind it that is seeking to make make changes in in your life. It's really demanding one thing from you, and that that is your attention. Right? Because it gathers enough information to be somewhat diagnostic, and it reveals that you know my my particular priorities may be the things that I'm I'm most afraid of because of what I'm trying to seek answers on. What whatever questions I might have rattling around in this brain.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, you could even say your your algorithm is essentially a mirror. Maybe it's not a perfect mirror, but I think it it's an honest one because as you as you said, it's it's taking subjective inputs and creating outputs. And every day you have an input, maybe with your words if whoever's listening, but with other aspects such as when you're scrolling through Instagram, what makes you stop scrolling and spend more time on a specific post? Are you replaying the same video? That's are you sharing that video? You're giving it information, which helps your algorithm and eventually essentially is a mirror of of your where your thoughts are, where your attention is.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

So, listeners, here's the plug for you, knowing now whether you were aware of this before or not. So watch this episode again and some others, and then share them and like them, comment, provide, provide some, provide some other content for for us to come back and revisit. But

Attention Reveals Emotional Priorities

SPEAKER_03 5:35

that that whole idea as we're exploring it, it's what it's really capturing apart from your attention is your your emotional energy. Because you're gonna spend your calories and your time on the things that are most important to you or the most pressing. And I guess we tend to become the things that we repeatedly pay attention to.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah, so maybe your feed is less of what you really like and more of what where your attention currently is. So, Jason, what what have you noticed in your feed lately in your algorithm algorithm?

SPEAKER_03 6:17

I knew you were gonna ask. Just run an experiment and see.

Jason Reads His Recommended Articles

SPEAKER_03 6:25

So the the thing that I find most interesting is whenever I go to Google, it presents to me articles that it thinks that I'm going to be interested in, I guess, based on what I what I read or what I click on or what I search. And so let's just go through a couple. All right. So the first one is a Forbes article that says, What leaders often miss about psychological safety. That's followed by Apple TV's sci-fi hit is streaming best news show, and it differs from the books. I don't know what that is. It seems pretty interesting. Labor force participation falls to 61.5%. So it's a Yahoo Finance article. 10 greatest sci-fi thrillers of the 20th century. Physics. Evidence mounts for hierarchical black hole mergers.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Why are these all very Jason?

SPEAKER_03 7:29

At least you know I'm honest on what things I'm interested in or what I talk about. Three effective things to start doing for your self-confidence and personal growth. That's pretty interesting. And best cities to invest in real estate in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I like it. Very different, very different than mine currently.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Well, I won't ask you, but if you want to share, feel free.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Well, I think we'll kind of get into it, but I think what our algorithm says is maybe Jason isn't obsessed with things like physics and real estate or whatever, but maybe it's Jason's trying to understand, he's trying to solve, he's trying to prepare. And those are those are very different than just you're obsessed with something, with whatever your algorithm is giving you.

Seasons Of Life Shape Algorithms

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So I think the overall theme is that we all we all have different algorithms, and these different algorithms reveal different seasons, whatever season we're in. Like I said, mine is very different than Jason's. I guess this is a good time to tell our listeners that I expecting. So I am I will be on maternity leave the end of August. And so my algorithm is a lot about car seats and sleep training and anything baby related. Not that I'm not interested in learning and solving problems outside of that or bettering myself in other areas, but my current season of life that is taking over right now is is our baby that's on the way. So what would you say it looks like for maybe an entrepreneur or a business owner?

What Business Owners Usually See

SPEAKER_03 9:37

I I imagine that for many, there's going to be links to articles about sales. You're going to have the endless do this course to do this thing to maximize revenue or revenue per employee. Cash flow is the cash flow is king or cash is king, find new ways to stretch dollars further in season of growth or season of contraction. I can practically guarantee that every entrepreneur has some something that shows up in their feed related to using AI in the workplace. And I also imagine that there's there's going to be things related to leadership, how to deal with toxic employees, how to attract superstars. Basically, all of those things are going to say, you know, how how am I how am I carrying my business?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

I think one other interesting point is that sometimes your algorithm may catch things before you do, or maybe it it helps you realize something that you are, I guess, subconsciously thinking about, which comes to fruition through whatever you're teaching your algorithm, I guess. And then you realize, oh, I didn't realize I was XYZ until this content started dominating my feed.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

I like that perspective because it's very true. And it is funny how you mentioned seasons because I don't know, six to nine months ago or so, I went through the season of uh just reviewing investments. And so every every video that showed up or that was recommended was on personal finance and uh investment strategies. And I had I don't know how many different content providers that that went through that. And I was just thinking about it the other day. So my my my YouTube feed is a little different. So that that shifted toward uh some other personal pursuits and away from investing, as I've taken my my littles back to karate training. I was absent for a number of years. And so now what shows up in my YouTube algorithm is a bunch of karate videos all all over the all over the place. And not the investing ones anymore. But I remember the feeling of, oh, this is how old I am, and then time value of money, and then I do do the math and try to figure all that stuff out. Like I gotta, I gotta keep moving, I gotta make these changes, I have to do whatever. Well, that's vanished now, at least that that pressure. Whether or not I correctly adopted those things, you know, time will tell. But now my focus has shifted to something else. And I I think that that's that's fascinating on how it can help to shape our how is it how it helps to shape my anxiety, uh, is one one way of putting it. And uh demanding my attention back to the core premise of this is what what it reveals about us.

Curiosity Versus Doom Scrolling

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah, I think it can be healthy, or we also know it can be unhealthy in terms of doom scrolling, or if you're just consume constantly consuming rather than doing or putting things to action, or if you're just if it's looking for validation, those are obviously the unhealthy sides and finding that balance for where it is healthy, where you're where you're learning and you're growing and you're applying what you're learning to your life and not letting it kind of completely consume you.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

I I like that in one of the things that has been consistent for me throughout my career is remaining curious and encouraging other people to explore their curiosity. And that that has great benefits in this age where we have access to so much information and now also interpretation to some extent with with AI, but not compulsion. And I like this line of curiosity expands you, but compulsion shrinks you. And as we talk through those healthy and unhealthy elements of what the algorithm reveals about you, we all know doom scrolling. I I liked this outrage scrolling. I don't know if that's just new to me or if it's something that I I know what it is because it usually happens between August and November every other year and every four years in great capacity for many people. And the the idea of what is it that's going to invoke in me this great feeling, just being so mad about everything or certain things specifically, is that is that healthy? And the answer is it's unlikely that that's healthy for you. But if I feel a compulsion to click on every single politically charged article or video, it's probably gonna have a negative impact on my demeanor and my approach to life for a period of time.

Using Your Feed For Exit Planning

SPEAKER_00 15:36

So how can we tie this all into our audience and and business owners looking at a potential exit, whether that's an Aesop or they it is for sure an Aesop? What should they do with their in terms of their algorithm?

SPEAKER_03 15:58

I'm a split mind on this because I was thinking about it as we were uh exploring the this topic. And you know, what shows up in in your feed? Is it uh tennis tricks and pickleball tournaments and boating and golf, all of the things that are kind of uh historically tied or connected to if I had more time in my life, where would I spend it? And is that indicative of are you ready to divert your attention away from driving sales and building the next generation of leadership within your company, improving your margins, dealing with however AI is going to integrate into your life? And your your attention is saying, uh apply me over here. And is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? I don't know. Is it is it the right way to for for you to examine what your algorithm is telling you? I think it would be more telling if most of your feed is things like how do I deal with a toxic employee? How do I fire my best friend? How do I get out from underneath a mountain of debt? Like I whatever those things are, I I think they're they're particular to seasons. And each of you are going to be in a spot that is, you know, maybe, maybe I do need to start spending some more time out west. Maybe I do need to think about a longer vacation. Maybe my articles are saying how to quit your business w without quitting your business. And some of the things that we've talked about here on not being a leadership bottleneck. And it would be disingenuous to say, hey, just start searching a bunch of stuff that makes your algorithm look really good when you show up on a podcast and your co-host asks you to reveal what's on your phone. Don't do that. That doesn't serve anyone. It doesn't solve anything for you. But what I would encourage you to think about is where what deserves your attention and how you curate your attention. If you haven't given a lot of thought about how to chart your exit from ownership and how to transition at ownership to someone else, then start paying attention to that. Because eventually the algorithm is going to follow your attention, and then your habits are going to follow what the algorithm kind of in influences you or chooses to share with you. And then your life is going to follow that habit.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

That's very true.

A Practical Attention Inventory

SPEAKER_00 18:44

I think a practical exercise for our listeners is just opening your most used app, whether that's Instagram or YouTube, TikTok, whatever it is, and just taking note of what are the first few videos or posts that popped up? And is that where your attention really is? What percentage of your attention is going towards the different categories that you come across? And ask yourself, is this where I actually want to be headed? Is this where I want my life to be headed? Is this where I want my attention to be focused?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

That's gonna be a challenging inventory for me, Mackenzie.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

I think the moral of everything is that the algorithm algorithms don't necessarily tell us who we are, they tell us where our our attention has been. And our attention over time becomes intention, which becomes habit, which becomes character. And so rather than asking yourself, why is my algorithm showing me this, maybe it's what have I been teaching it about the person I'm becoming.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Just to remind listeners about their own agency and a an age of influence. View the algorithm not as, again, some insidious intelligence that is trying to curate you. It's not a villain. But it is a dashboard. And as a dashboard, it's a tool, not a destiny. It's not saying this is who you are destined to be, if this is what's what we're showing you about yourself in that emotional mirror. And just tells you about where you're headed. And if it reveals to you that you don't like the direction, I may maybe you've smashed your GPS before, or if you've headed it to taken a wrong turn and gotten far, far afield. But normally you just kind of change how you drive and the direction that you're headed. And there's time and room for you to do that. And I don't want you to think that social media is bad, but we want you to be aware and increase your intention because ultimately that's what gives you more power in choosing what you want your future to be rather than being allowed to drift into it.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

A lot of food for thought today.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

This was fun. These are usually the good ones when you ask me questions.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

More fun for me. Well,

Closing And Listener Invitation

SPEAKER_00 21:56

thank you to our listeners, and feel free to uh interact with us at journey2anesop.com. Let us know if you if you like these these types of episodes, um, what you want to hear from us. Subscribe, like, share with a friend, and thank you for joining us. And we'll see you next week.