EP23 - Makenzie Wirth Interview-Journey to an ESOP Newest Team Member!

On this episode, Jason Miller interviews Makenzie Wirth, the newest member of our Journey to an ESOP team. From a career in public accounting to her current role in ESOP advisory, Makenzie discusses her journey in learning about employee ownership over the last several months. The podcast highlights her fresh perspective on ESOPs and employee ownership and includes a sneak peak of what she will bring to the podcast in future episodes. 

Transcript

[0:08] Welcome back to the journey to an ESOP podcast where we explore all the dimensions of employee ownership and how not just shapes companies but people and communities we try to make everything related to esops both accessible and understandable. I'm Jason Miller your host for for this episode and today's episode is kind of special to me and I'm joined by someone that you're going to be hearing a lot more from in the future.

[0:35] McKenzie worth my teammate here at journey to an ESOP. And she's going to be stepping into a bigger role in the podcasts and hosting episodes and sharing thought leadership with all of you. So McKenzie someone from my experience with her who approaches complex problems with real curiosity a heart to help people and really has a fresh perspective that even seasoned Business Leaders can learn from and that mix is 1 of the things that makes the world of employee ownership really powerful. So it's not just about Decades of experience but about bringing new eyes of fresh perspective and new ways of thinking into a broader conversation. So today instead of doing a deep dive into technical details uh we're going to focus on McKenzie's perspective how she sees esops what excites her about the work and what she hopes to bring to you as a voice on this podcast, so McKenzie thanks for being here uh I'm excited for our listeners to get to know you, uh and as we do with all of our first-time podcast guests we get to ask the question of what is your favorite movie and why.

[1:44] I was waiting for that 1 to come Jason um but first off thanks for the introduction that was um. A great introduction and really appreciate that so I guess for the movie so obviously I'm a listener to the podcast I knew that question was was going to be 1 of 1 of the first ones from. This interview here and it's funny because if you know me personally it's kind of.

[2:10] A running joke maybe not a joke because it's true I am not a big movie person um I grew up like obviously watching movies but. Later on just with school and studies and work and everything I just am not a big TV person even when I come to TV shows, um I'm notorious for falling asleep, during movies and even TV shows but um I did think about this 1 so that I could provide some sort of answer here um and what I landed on was Goodwill Hunting.

[2:48] So this 1 obviously has a lot of great actors in it um it's a good story it's got some romance has some drama Comedy All the Above So kept me awakethat's that's that's hello bar for for a movie but uh it is a really great movie with a really good cast uh I think I could see why why it would appeal to you so let's let's take that 1 1 step further and take a minute to introduce yourself to our our listeners and not just your role um but kind of what Drew you to the world of employee ownershipsoum. I guess my background career-wise I started my career in public accounting for about 5 years um that has since transitioned in the last year in that I am officially out of. Your typical public accounting role I wasn't I was an audit um. Learned a lot it was a great foundation for my career but I did want to kind of Branch out into more of a Consulting type role um to engage with clients differently and also just expand my knowledge and learning Beyond just. Financial statement Audits and compliance and helping clients just checking the Box umand so.

[4:12] The way I ended up in the East that was phase kind of just fell in my lap honestly and it was something that was introduced to me as an opportunity and.

[4:23] Obviously after some research and just from the people I had originally met throughout the process I was immediately excited and intrigued um.

[4:33] As you know there is tons to learn um I think I'm about 6 to 7 months in my learning and. Though I feel, much more knowledgeable than I did 7 months ago I know that there is still something new to learn almost every day in the world of esops soit's kind of how I ended up here and I am along for the ride and enjoying it all so. Awesome well just just know that that feeling is going to follow you for the rest of your life in esops as well there's always something more to learn uh and I I think a lot of us uh know that really well but there's there's a lot of value in I'd mentioned fresh perspectives, and so uh with that being so new uh in the idea of esops and employee ownership uh sharing with the audience what, when you first heard the term ESOP uh what did it mean to you then and then how is that meaning evolved as you've gotten deeper into the work.

[5:38] Um so I think at first I just knew really that it was just an employee Benefit Plan um. And to be honest I always just immediately Associated it with Publix um. That was just obviously the 1 of the largest and I always heard about it I know some people that worked at public so I've I've heard. Bernie saw but I really didn't know much beyond the fact that it was a benefit plan and that in some way shape and form the employees were owners. And that's pretty much all I knew about 7 months agoand then now uh as you've been exposed to uh different. Types of companies that have explored uh an ESOP transaction or an ESOP exit or have been esops for a number of years um you know what what. Else have you been able to pick up or glean uh around the ESOP outside of the the retirement benefit that's probably been Mo most of insightful to you I think is really what I'm looking for here um in in that regard.

[6:43] Um well I think first and foremost is kind of thewhat turned out to be kind of the most obvious but wasn't when I first, heard about them was the fact that it is a succession plan um it's an exit strategy it's a transition of ownership which was never my first thought in hearing about esops um so getting to learn more about that and, hearing perspectives from owners that are looking to transition to an ESOP transition their ownership um that's been very insightful I think another piece is um. The fact that it's just an alignment of. Interest among multiple parties the employees the owners that are looking to sell and the company itself um. I've found a great appreciation for the kind of win win win of the scenario um so that's been. Really cool to learn about and hear the perspectives from all those different parties.

[7:46] Awesomeoh I I think I described you and you would probably describe yourself as someone who enjoys solving complex problemsum, give us some further Insight in how ESOP work allows you to do that in a way that feels rewarding. Well in terms of solving complex problems I think I think we all know that esops are are complex and I was thinking about this a lot too because.

[8:17] I don't know that it'swhen when you break it down you when you break down the different pieces of an ESOP.

[8:24] The pieces themselves aren't that complexI think it's more just being understand or being able to. Pull those pieces all together and understand it all together um. And so I think that's been cool for me to kind of learn and problem solve. Um while also helping owners problem solve. Their circumstances whether that's what what is the nextnext step in my career what it what is the next step for the company um How do I. What is what is the succession plan of the company um and I think where it's been rewarding is just to see the excitement throughout the processbut then also immediately after um, I thinkit's excitement fromthe owners themselves employees andum. I guess the company can't be excited but the employees are excited on behalf of the company and so I think it's been rewarding to see the work um. That we do in terms of educating everyone on what there is to know about esops and how um that translates once the ESOP is actually formed, if you're touching on something here that's really important and that's that this process isn't just Financial.

[9:52] And that it's people centered andwi with that can you share a little bit more or story about when you saw kind of the the heart of employee ownership come through in the work. Yeah um. I think a lot oftentimes you'll see with companies that are looking to become esops even when they're just in in the like exploratory phase um.

[10:20] I would say 9 times out of ten everyone has already has a great culture um. And you can tell that the owners themselves like are just generous people wanting to kind of give back to their employees and. Umhelp their employees feel rewarded for everything they've done to help build the companyum. I think seeing like the celebrations and the announcements after esops are formed on LinkedIn and on the company's websites um it's it's really cool to see, not only the owners that were kind of working on the transaction behind the scenes um and like the CFOs whoever else is involved but when it's finally announced the employees. They feel likekind of a new like like empowerment going forward within their company um so I think. I think where I've seen it most is just the announcements that.

[11:23] Are put out there on LinkedIn or howeverthey're announcing to the world but um. To the employees themselves that seems like everyone just is immediately excited and kind of on board, they're they're picking up the energy that the that the owners put down right or exchanged uh their uh their ownership interest for with that and since we work a lot uh as you mentioned with business owners working up 2 and through the transaction what what is surprised you the most about working with them who you know some of these these owners have led their companies for decades uh andtell me about and some surprising Revelations as you work with them through uh this this ESOP process.

[12:13] UmI would say.

[12:18] 01 oftentimes I feel likeit's really cool to see all all the different owners kind of doing their own research ahead of time on his opps and coming to the table with what they already knowum I think that's always kind of like respectable and they they they've done their own due diligence to the extent they can um, and then leaning on other resources and us to help fill the gaps and whatnot um.

[12:46] I guess what else is surprising is just I kind of touched on this already but how generous they are like you'll see some owners thatdon't even really care about what they're what they're getting out of it, oh maybe, their uh priority is their employees and their company they'll even sometimes pass on taking the seller note or whatever it is um. They'll like forgive want to forgive the debt because they don't.

[13:14] They're just so generous they want the company to succeed in the employees to reap um the rewards so I think that's been really cool to seeumso yeah. So with that um and and keeping the theme with owners and uh you know highlighting their intent to, maintain their culture in the transition post-transition that's why esops are so magical um a lot of our listeners have lived through kind of years and Decades of of leadership experience um and so from from your perspective as someone newer to esops in general through this really important, time in their life chapter in their life to consider what to do with the equity of their company what is it that you may see a little bit more clearly when focusing in on the the ESOP transaction itself um maybe something that that could get overlooked uh by by owners as they're approaching this um as an option for for their exit.

[14:25] That's a good question umI think just all all of the different.

[14:36] Things that they they maybe don't know that they don't know about esops and. Making sure they know the implications of if this then that um the different ways you can structure an ESOP um. Maybe what happens beyond the ESOP formation it's not just the transaction happens and that's it there's um. Continuous. Duties and tasks that you have tohave someone within the company umkind of pay attention to each year and not even just once a year you're kind of you you got to stay on top of the ball like with being with all the regulations with um the RS the do all of that you've got to stay on top of it so I think um. There may be things that are overlooked beyond the formation of the ESOP um. Which is maybe maybe that's probably the the most.

[15:38] The biggest thing I've noticedI like what you said about uh they may not know.

[15:44] What they what they don't know I think is the way that that you Frazer what they know already I I can't the way that that I that I heard it was they know a lot uh it's just what context are they bringing to the table with what they know already in in light of an ESOP transaction um and I think we both know that uh it it's an important consideration but it's an emotional 1 uh and working through the processum however quickly or however slowly or however measured um it it doesn't require a a leader or an owner to abandon all the things that they already knew about business and about a secession plan or about a transaction as you mentioned earlier like oh well this is a benefit plan right, yes but it it's also a an m&a transaction and what do they already know about that and they acquired companies before or sold companies before and that way they're not starting from zero they're starting from a place of comfort in a a transition that again is is is highly emotional for for many owners. In seeing this process through from kind of beginning to end what part of it uh do you find yourself gravitating toward the most and then why do you think that that's been an area that that you connect with.

[17:12] I think umI'm kind of torn here but I think I'm I'm going to go with my gut I enjoy the feasibility. Phaseumof projects just in terms of helping I think it's really cool to show owners um. What things will look like after the transaction but before it happens um and modeling different scenarios to show owners. All of their options essentially umhelping them. Ultimately make a decisionwith information that they're able to. Digest and understand and not just kind of relying on someone else's expertise but also just being able to understand, what were illustrating and and what what will happen when the ESOP is formed um I was torn with. The other side of.

[18:16] When you're actually when when they've decided they're going with it they're going with the ESOP and kind of helping owners get to the finish line.

[18:25] And kind of quarterbacking the deal and and helping themum push things along and make sure they're not. Missing anything or nothing nothing slips through the cracks they're considering all things they're they're aware of every step along the way, that speaks a lot to your stewardship mentality right we've done all the work together as a team they're fully informed and educated and given the green light to go now we're on the racetrack and you want to see them through all the way through as intended and as as best as you can plan without a crystal ball uh right uh and there's there is I I would agree there's a lot of satisfaction from from thatI could see why it would appeal to you and why you're torn given the the if this then that scenario analysis throughout feasibility uh and making sure that that owners are are fully prepared for what they're about to embark on, mhm so pivoting a little bit um so you're you're going to be hosting episodes of your own soon um there I am so what, what what kinds of conversations are you excited to bring forward to the audienceoh goshum.

[19:48] Sneak preview right as as as a movie this is your preview um. So I don't I don't think I'm well I mentioned my career started in public accounting um I do have my CPA so accounting is my. My thing um as exciting as that is um so I think 1 thing that I'm excited to dive into is.

[20:10] The accounting of esops and kind ofeducating people on the different nuances there because not everyone is familiar um. But beyond that I think I'm kind of excited to bringlike you mentioned a fresh perspective um and someone being only like 6 years into their professional career and getting exposed to this.

[20:35] Large community with um so many resources and such a large Network I think it's it'll be cool to kind ofhopefully engage um. People that are are new to the ESOP Community but also maybe like fresh into their careers um kind of engaging. Umnot a newer audience but. Confidence is something that grows with with experience um and so 1 of the things that I think would be helpful in in um you know to to our audience to our future audience that we're we're thinking about your your perspectives and and sharing those um what what helps you feel grounded when you're stepping into a new role like this 1.

[21:38] I think it'sI think you have to have the mindset that it's it's okay to not know everything um, especially when you're when you're new to something and people know you're new to something no 1's expecting you to know everythingand I think it's important to 1 do your own research and learn as much as you can on your own do your own due diligence but also don't be afraid to lean on other people um and other resources that can can help. Develop you in May and maybe someonecan help point you to a new resource that you've never even heard of that will develop your knowledge um. So I think it's kind of just not being afraidand. Taking advantage of being new by asking all the dumb questions or whatever question you may think is dumb because.

[22:31] I've never been in this world so I've got to askMcKenzie you're in great company uh and to to our our listeners um, all of you are a part of a great community and 1 of the things that attracted me most to the employee ownership Community is Mackenzie exactly what you expressedit's okay not to know, uh but it's on you to askand the good news is the community is prepared to step in and help you answerand so, not just for for you but for for all of our listeners as you're here and again thank you for being here and for listening in to the this this ESOP podcast as you explore this option for yourself, you may not have broader exposure to the the employee ownership community at large but I would encourage you uh to look for those those resources uh organizations like the nceo national Center for employee ownership or the ESOP Association um because there there is not just education and information available but there is community and it is that community that makes all the difference in why people come here and never leave uh and so uh thank you for for sharing that and that's that's 1 thing too that I've I've noticed about the community is that it's.

[23:53] It'spretty big and also everyone is just so willing to help each otherand I am excited to start going to conferences and starting to meet people and building my network in the community um so that I can just like you call on Whoever Whenever I have a question that may take 2 minutes for them to answer and it's something that I'm like losing sleep over because I can't figure it out but I can just give someone a call within the community um and everyone's so willing to help. So and everyone seems to have the same passion about the community and esops um which is pretty cool.

[24:31] I talked with someone yesterday who said um for for some people in in this community it's uh a um it's a job, uh or it's a calling and in many different uh Paths of. Of careers uh you have kind of a different view of of where there are few people that are called to do whatever you can think of, and then there are a lot of people that that utilize that as a job but in the employee ownership Community more broadly uh it's it feels much more like a calling to most of the people in the community, so what do you hope that business owners, takeaway when they hear from you not not just today but in future episodes that you lead what do you want them to walk away with.

[25:24] Um I think just valuable advice and something that they canum leverage and share with others and, just know that if if they have a question they can come to our podcast and find the answer um.

[25:44] Yeah I think that's my main goal is just making sure that we're continuously educating and available and touching on all topics that. Everyone iscurious about or is not familiar with um.

[26:02] I think just having a reliable resource. In that same vein if if you could speak to directly to an owner who's considering transitioning their company to an ESOP or employee ownership what's 1 thing that you would want them to know.

[26:27] Buckle up McKenzie we're going to need to expand on that a little bit uh I I love it I love it I think just be ready to. Honestly drink from a fire hose if you are completely new to the world um ask any and all questions that come to mind um. I think.

[26:55] Just just be ready to learn and have an open mind andumlean on your advisors.

[27:04] Very good advice very good advice so my my last question for you today iswhat gives you the most hope about the future of employee ownership.

[27:26] I think from what I.

[27:31] Have seen over the past several months is that it's only continuing to grow the communityand I think that.

[27:42] The increase of the number of people within the community and um the resources that are out there in the education that's, available um I think gives me hope that more people will be um exposed to the idea of esops um. To even knowing that they're an option and thatthere are.

[28:08] So many people that have beenin that boat that can speak to the. Benefits that come out of an ESOP fromthe various perspectives.

[28:21] Very good well McKenzie any any final words uh or or any final questions uh as we wrap up today. I think I just want to say thanks for thanks for this uh interview Jason thanks for introducing me to our audience um I'm super excited for those listening to start hosting my own um and I hope to um.

[28:45] Expand our audience and I hope everyone enjoys continues to enjoy and listen to our podcastawesome, well I I want to say how excited I am too uh for listeners for all of you to hear more from McKenzie so today we gave you just kind of a glimpse of her perspective her curiosity problem solving mindset and really her heart behind the workand so I would encourage you uh to continue listening as as you will hear more and more from her, like subscribe share our episode with a friend and we will see you next time on the journey to an ESOP and Beyond podcast thank you.