EP14 - ESOP Communication - Interview with Diana Clark

 This episode is a general overview of ESOP communication.  Diana Clark and I discuss the importance of communicating an ESOP transition to your employees.  We discuss how to present an ESOP to your company, answering the question: What is in it for the employee? This is a very essential part of the ESOP journey--once the ESOP closes this marks a new beginning for the company. Communication is central to building a highly effective ESOP company, as well as re energizing mature ESOPs. 

Transcript

[0:09] Everybody this is the ESOP guy we are on a journey to an ESOP and Beyond so excited for you to join us today as we go through. Uh what I think is a very very important topic and 1 of the things that happens a lot in ESOP transactions is.

[0:24] The everybody you know including the shareholders gets very very focused on the transaction which of course is very important but really what comes after the transaction and this is some of the things that we talked about in doing in season 5 is getting deeper into the uh journey to tuning up and Beyond. The Beyond part is really how do you really work. The ESOP from an employee stock ownership plan to truly be the benefit that it is in part of that is how do we educate the employees how do we get the most out of like the idea of the goal of of retaining you know your good people incentivizing your people um under helping them understand you know what they have. At stake so so that's what this topic is going to be about today as we go through this we're going to do this with Diana Clark. And she is an expert at communic is that what I call ESOP communication as well as other things and we're going to just talk through. What I think could be very very helpful for you as you listen um about what should you be thinking if you're getting closer to closing your ESOP transaction.

[1:30] And also the other side of it is is also you know what happens typically is as companies mature and they go through the process of being a mature ESOP company. They have to kind of continue with the idea of how we re-energize or how do we keep this. This kind of magic or spark going in our company so we're going to talk about all those things today so thanks for joining um we're really excited to do this topic so thanks for for joining us Diana.

[1:55] Thank you I'm so happy to be here.

[1:57] So so again welcome to the podcast and 1 of the things I I always kind of start off with just to break the ice a little bit is like what if you do know the podcast we do a lot of movies what was your favorite movie or TV show and why.

[2:13] Favorite movie or TV show well it might surprise you that my favorite movie series is James Bonds and I you know I grew up with a father that was US Marshal and way back when when we had the TV Guide my dad would. Kind of underline and highlight on network TV when all those James Bond movies would get released and you know he would make it a big deal that we get to watch him together and he would explain. All about Ian Fleming and how the bond uh movies were started and and you know through those stories and bonding with him I just I just grew up on those movies so I I just love them all. And I think that I have to ask you like who your favorite actor James Bond actor is because. You know there's many to choose from I know you know I I really do do like them all from from each of their kind of generation I think there was a great movie in in each of those actors uh backgrounds but my favorite has to be Casino Royale with Daniel Craig. Yeah because he's the cool James Bond.

[3:19] I mean here's the cool James Bond James Bond well cool all right well thank you for for being on our podcast today and and um like I said I I'm excited to talk about this because I think it's something in the ESOP community that. Um is overlooked a little bit and and I don't mean like people aren't wanting to do it I think there's just a little bit like so much focus on the transaction that. This kind of gets pushed to a couple of things and I would say simply it you know maybe the maybe they have a great start to a rollout meeting but where do you what do you do next and all that so. So let's talk a little bit as we start off the topic um you know so people understand like how you came to be where you are now. What was your story in terms of getting into esops in from your career and how that all kind of transpired.

[4:08] Yeah so I graduated with a degree in economics and right out of college I worked in a retirement planning and financial planning firm so that really helped me establish a foundation for retirement planning and benefit management and through that role I morphed into an HR person so then I pursued a master's degree in human resources which led me to uh become the head of uh HR for Community College in the Midwest and in that role I was also teaching a lot of business and econ and general HR courses and then after that shortly after that then I joined a company in the midwest back in. 12 and that at that time that company had been growing it was family-owned and I became part of that organization's executive leadership team and we recognized right away that we had just a fantastic culture and also as I started to work with the CEO.

[5:08] And his spouse at that at that time it was a family company like so many esops. Are today they were talking about their own succession plan and so the executive team started to explore esops and it really made sense for us to give back to the employees that had helped the organization grow throughout the years and so converting to an ESOP just became um you know it was already part of our DNA but then it really helped not only Elevate the company um.

[5:40] To the next level but then also it was a way for us to give back to the employees and so on that role too I was the head of HR and I also was on our merger and acquisition team and the company was growing um.

[5:53] In in course of 10 years we doubled in size not only employee headcount and and also in revenue and then the company uh sold in 2022 but it was kind of during the ebb and flow of helping that company grow that I became motivated because I was an executive leader and also had a HR and I had this you know.

[6:16] What happens next moment when you close that transaction because I was part of that process but then now I owned all all of the administrative pieces and I was you know learning what it was like then to have to manage an ESOP but then also communicate um how the esap worked and um in addition to that is an executive leader we were also doing our day job so we were closing on. Acquisitions throughout the country and we would onboard you know sometimes 20 or 30 people. And the course of a quarter and so explaining what an ESOP was to all these new organizations and employee that employees that were joining our team it just became something that I found um that I really Excel that and I wanted to you know use that as an opportunity to help others in their uh journey to an ESOP and Beyond and that's how that's how I'm here today. That's awesome now I love the back the fact and I know this is is true with with companies that you work with. That you've been there and done that you know and it's it's 1 thing to be an adviser where you you know you've not really lived in that world. But you've been on the other side and you know you first off you know what it's like to be the you know the executive or the person that's in charge of now rolling this out for the company.

[7:34] And like for a lot of companies that do esops they're like that person's like okay well what do I do right and and so there's a challenge that I would say and you can kind of like we talked about a little bit that the challenge of kind of saying I don't you know what do I do first and all that so how how does that really feel for somebody you know not just emotionally but also just from a the career point of view like is there is there a lot of anxiety to that for somebody that's going to have to be responsible for all this.

[8:03] Yeah yeah certainly you know I think like anything else that's new esops can be very complex and I think our goal is to try to communicate and. Um position them in a way that doesn't have to be complex but when you are taking on those new responsibilities it's kind of the fear of the unknown you know you don't know what you don't know you you just don't know what kind of questions to ask and I think that oftentimes is as an executive leader when you're going through those transactions we don't talk enough about okay what is the next step look like like there's just this push to get the deal done and so oftentimes then um we forget. To just pause before we closed on that transaction and really talk about what's next um which I think it's it's important to talk about you know what is the administration administrative piece look like next and and who internally is going to be responsible for you know making sure that that those uh next steps happen and when I refer to that you know we're referring to you know employee census and 5,500 filing and all the compliance pieces and then and then there's the employee communication piece you know this is such a significant opportunity and moment in a company's history it's really a milestone and so.

[9:25] We want to be able to communicate that in a way that not only um. Kind of resonates the why in the transition but we also want to kind of pause and allow that opportunity of transition to happen and it typically happens or or I feel like it should happen over you know a series of time. Um and. You know 1 of the best practices that I would encourage you know companies to consider is that before you close that transaction is to start thinking about the communication process and understand that it really. Um means that you have to build your own strategy that's relevant to you and your Workforce and your company um and you know collaborate with your internal executive team and others on what that could look like because it's not a you know as as you know it's not a 1 1 size fits-all approach it really is you know kind of a customizable solution that um meet meets the needs of of the workforce in the company.

[10:22] And I think that is a a good point if I and I want to go back into that a little bit on the the approach to communication.

[10:30] Um but I do think that there's a sense for like companies that have done work with that there is it's almost overwhelming. Because there's all this unknown and depending on their responsibility to the company it could be their more on the finance side it could be their more on the HR side or whatever some but somebody has put this in their responsibility Zone and now they're the ESOP Champions suddenly and they've never like done that so and I think being able to address that like you said earlier on in the process like having a plan before closing I think is a very good idea because it helps to kind of. Reduce the anxiety and then have like this this confidence in celebration in the closing to where now we know what's going to happen and so I I know that that's probably what I I think you probably would say that that's our best practice because it really helps them you know to get in there and be ready to go with a with a dated calendar game plan that could be really helpful.

[11:29] Yes absolutely and I think that in and of itself coming up with a plan we'll just alleviate the kind of stressors on on what's next like let's just put together kind of the fundamentals of what we want to communicate in the next 30 60 and 90 days. And that in and of itself really is is where you need to start yeah it's like 1 thing I I remember doing ESOP deals earlier in my career and.

[11:53] I'm super excited with the with the shareholder right we're excited we're gonna close the deal and everybody's happy and we did you know we did this great thing and then suddenly you start talking to people in the company and they're like oh my goodness you know and and I really firsthand experience that so I I really always felt kind of responsible to not just I want to celebrate. That part but also realize that what's actually happening in the transaction is is there's this what I would call it's like a new beginning it's not the end it's a it's a whole new beginning that now presents all of this opportunity and the worst thing is is that if you don't do that well I feel like the there's like almost like this negativity that can actually um attach itself. To the ESOP company afterwards and that's the worst thing because I mean you're doing this like the the shareholders are generously doing this you know maybe in lieu of another opportunity uh maybe selling it to strategic buyer and here you're expecting the employees to like this is awesome and they're not saying that so how often do you see um in your experience that being that that not necessarily negativity but just this the the experience of how that perception is maybe not what you expected.

[13:07] Yeah sure so you know 1 1 of the things that we have to remember is is leaders going through this transaction is that most of us after the transaction are also employees as well and so we we get to participate in the esap benefit too so this is something that you know we've made on a major decision on behalf of the company but it's also impacting us as employees and so I think I think if we put ourselves in the employees shoes.

[13:36] And we're hearing this information for the first time we have to consider how they're going to react to that and oftentimes employees and this is just from my experience oftentimes employees will think you know okay you've just told me that the company is going through this major transition and they'll pause and they're thinking okay now what like 1 is the other shoe going to drop and is this really too good to be true so I think part of crafting an effective communication plan is to also talk about um you know the dos and don'ts of what will and won't happen now that we're an ESOP you know and really addressing and being forthcoming about you know what doesn't change um it's helpful I think if an executive team has an idea of what could be changing to also just be transparent about that during these announcements you know the more transparent we can be as Leaders then I think employees will gain confidence in their leadership team and then also.

[14:40] And be more connected to that esap benefit know and that's a great point and I I kind of keeps me in the the a thought process of.

[14:49] The just my experience being like the managing partner of our firm dealing with how do I roll out information to to the employees. I would say that as a rule of thumb I was like if I don't if I don't give them enough information then the blanks that they have are kind of going to go unfortunately more to the negative as opposed to the positive so if they're if they're having to guess like hey why is that person leaving right or why is this change happening and then they're going to fill it in with something that may not be obviously not the truth because they don't have all the facts so so I think that point of just being as transparent as you can and I think that kind of creates the next question about. What you know appropriately and this is part of communication which is I think such a wonderful topic but when you approach communication. With your roll out of say for the ESOP is maybe this is the first time you've explained it to your employees there are certain things you can share.

[15:44] And there are certain things that you can't share and I would say mostly because you don't know yet for sure how those things are going to work um most of the companies they want to share they want to do a roll out literally like right after the you know usually right after the closing like because we want to get this out and they're super excited and I we all want to do that but what sort of things can you share at the roll out just high level and what sort of things could you not share and so what and and what are the issues around those that you have to kind of as a as a team navigate through with your with your communication strategy. Sure sure so I think you know some of the more popular topics at a high level are you know covering the nuts and bolts of what esops are and as this is an opportunity to for us to create some momentum behind the the transaction you know.

[16:33] Really baking in education at that point a lot of people have never heard of esops and so they just don't even know what they are so I think kind of laying the fundamentals to you know this is what an ESOP is it is a retirement benefit plan and this is how it will benefit youis key so start that and you know because we think about building out a communication plan like Phase 1 is you know the nuts and bolts of the basics and I think in that initial meeting it's really important to be sure to have your plan documents ready because employees within uh moments after hearing those announcements they'll all go to their phone and they'll start googling esops and they're gonna want to know you know things like what what is vesting mean what is years of service mean so if we think about what are some of the basic plan rules. I think those are always important details to talk about in an introductory um esap meeting um some of the things that you know could be takeaways from from our esap community are you know what are some of the things that you know maybe you wouldn't share in in the first communication meeting um I I try to avoid going too far down a rabbit or um and by that I mean a lot of employees might ask some really unpopular questions you know they might say well what did the company sell for and you know um.

[18:02] They may ask questions about financials and so I think executive leaders need to be prepared that they could be um presented with some really uncomfortable topics during those meetings and so part of the communication plan could be how are we going to couch uh questions that were just not prepared to answer. Mhm I think it's a really good point and it brings me to a um a comment that I would make about some of the myths behind esops that some and then this this is just something that people sometimes think that that is true but the truth is that there you don't have to share what you do have to share with the employees there's a few things we'll I'll let datl but you don't you're not required to share the financials number 1 you don't have to share the financial terms of the deal you don't have to do any that's not like obligated and when we talk about employee ownership it doesn't mean that their owners like an owner owns the stock it is a beneficial owner in a retirement plan and so that delineation is super important because you don't have this like population of employees saying hey I'm gonna. Walk in your office or vote on something or you know it's not like you're suddenly losing control and on their side they're not paying for this stock so they're not putting their own Capital into this company they're basically benefiting because they're an employee so what do you have to share with the employees if you're you're you're nuts and bolts but boil it all down to like what's the couple of things that they actually do get.

[19:31] Yeah so a couple things that that they're going to need to get 1 is um what we call a summary plan description so that is going to be the the employees um version of the rules of the plan and so a summary plan description. It's really important that when that becomes available that we get that oh over to staff um there is a time frame for delivery on that um when employees become available under the plan um they need to be. They need a cup to be given a copy of that within a certain time frame and those are all do rules. And then also um there's another time frame to post the transaction when that summary plan description needs to get um communicated to them and then on an annual basis and.

[20:13] If there's anything else too to help fill in the blanks um when we think about you know employee Communications you know annual statements they're supposed to get an annual statement um they're also supposed to get a summary annual report so that. That means um at the end of every uh calendar year. Um operating year for the ESOP there is a summary annual report that lists um all the kind of legal ease uh that go along with the ESOP for a year any other fees or any other um thing that things or items that need to be disclosed to the employees they're entitled to a a report to receive that um I'm sure I'll think of other things as we chat today but those are really just a few of the components so when we think about communication there's a compliance piece to it as well. Yeah and that that does that include their participant statement and what you mentioned is that like that how much stock do I have in the plan how much is that stock worth and what's my vested part of that stock so just specifically more of like a retirement plan statement then anything more than that you know which is their information not the whole company's information so they can't see how much Johnny or Susie has in the plan either.

[21:25] Correct. Yeah so so some and as I say that I mean some companies are very very culture wise and they're they work wonderfully they're closed comp and they're closed everything I mean and nobody knows anything and others are more open book management and hey you know let's just show every so you don't that you don't have to change what you're doing you could keep it like that if you have that kind of open book management style or you can just keep what you have so I think that's 1 of the things I think is important um and you don't have to do that to get everything out of the ESOP either that's kind of part of what I wanted to get into it's like there's so much to talk about when it comes to educating the the employees about what's happening in what can happen in the future and that's why I call it kind of the new beginning because there's so much going to happen from that point we close to all the years coming forward for them um 1 of the things on on the approach to communication too I wanted to kind of talk through a little bit is.

[22:22] Really important I think is is not what I would say is is not like making it more than it really is right um there's a lot of excitement in the community about. Employee ownershipbut on the 1 you know over the top like what does this mean and not that it's not a great benefit they don't pay for it so it's just wonderful but how do you approach that issue of being careful. Um I would tell people just in my own way it's not a get-rich quick system that you know suddenly my 100 employees have whatever it's not that so how do you kind of approach that issue.

[23:00] Yeah so you know I think first and foremost we have to educate employees from day 1 that it's a long-term benefit and so. The longer an employee stays in their job the the more likely they will be to become a 100% vested when that time comes. And then most ESOP companies simply have more tenure with with their staff and so you know we start there by laying the breadcrumbs on you know. Uh why it's important to to work towards having tenure at your company but when we think about over inflating you know esap numbers it really can happen and so we don't want to kind of create this false narrative that hey just because we're an ESOP you know everybody gets to retire with with 7 figures in the bank um I think our job there is to be mindful in our administrative processes and when we. Um start working on things like our purchase liability studies and we work you know we Forge that relationship with the TPA. In the first few years we can really determine what that benefit value is in the ESOP you know we we need a couple years. Um of data to start reviewing what that number looks like and so um some organizations you know might establish a 4 5 6 uh percent benefit level um in the first few years and and then some companies that that are really successful it might creep up.

[24:25] You know in the coming 5 to ten years so then 1 of the things that we can do is actually put realistic numbers. 2 employees wages and what that currently sat benefit level is and as a leadership team um and a Communications team we can actually say hey our current benefit level in the ESOP is approximately 8%. And here's what that looks like for you in terms of your current wages so I think that putting data behind those numbers and setting realistic expectations in those early years is a really great strategy and um helping shape what that employees expectation is.

[25:03] Yeah I think part of that I've seen I've seen graphs to be like let's just talk about instead of 1 year you know let's talk about 10 or 15 year increments of time so that they can see that graphically as a long-term benefit not like looking for something that's not going to be there.

[25:20] And because of that issue sometimes people ask me hey I've got a population of employees some of which have been with me a long time. And I've got you know some people say in their 60s or se you know maybe even 70s but you know just say like what what would they get out of the ESOP and and you know unfortunately I would just kind of tell them look it's a long-term benefit plan so because of that the esops not the vehicle to take that person so. You know as much as I want to help every single person in the company it's really probably going to benefit more a younger. Person in their career that's going to be at the company a lot longer and so go going through that a little bit how do you how do you address because I know there's probably people listening to that like they have employees different generational people you know how do you address that kind of. In a openly to try to make sure that we don't um we want to be inclusive we want to make this part of our culture and it could feel like we're we're creating something that really benefits younger people more than the older population so um so just thought thought thoughts around that a little bit.

[26:25] Yeah so you knowevery organization right now um has so many challenges when it comes to different employee groups and populations and then all the different Generations in the workforce like this is the first time in America really that we have 5 Generations still in the workforce and so we have you know this Z generation late teens early 20s through you know Millennials and gen xers and and so on and so forth and so I think as um. Our communication strategy we really need to consider what what is our. Workforce look like you know where we topheavy and um the younger population or or or do we have a population that is you know 5 to 10 years out in retirement and more than likely Li organizations are going to have a little bit of everything and so and so I think that when we.

[27:17] Consider our communication strategy we have to be sure to be using a lot of different mediums for delivery you know we we talked about. You know the Z generation and Millennials they communicate through Snapchat and visual aids and so to your point about graphs um we. We could be doing more um you know number crunching with them there's a lot of useful tools that we can get on the internet to just show them. You know what is the future value of a dollar look like um and so in in that generation we can be really creative and and how we help them understand how money grows um. Individuals that that are you know 5 to ten years down from retirement that are part of our ESOP Community maybe we need to be doing more to help them prepare for retirement and so I I've seen a a huge shift in companies. Um doing more in terms of developing employee benefits around retirement planning um so when we think about esap communication strategies it's just not. ESOP specific to the nuts and bolts of esops but it's also helping our employees kind of prepare for retirement it's also you know helping um support benefit packages for employees throughout all their stages of life.

[28:38] Yeah I think that's a good point because I think sometimes we're so myopic are so focused on the ESOP there's all this other stuff happening. And even even as you say that I was thinking about like and again older populations younger populations and you got your bell curve but with the older population in a company. Um what are the things I think they really get to enjoy whether it's they got 5 more years left or whatever is there's this new sense of connectivity. That is you know and maybe everybody gets a t-shirt right or however and they have the big picture but you can almost see it in some of these pictures where it's like now. Everybody's kind of got this common bond that I think is just a you know 1 of those things that.

[29:18] It can it can manifest itself in a better culture but is Meaningful to people that hey I'm really part of something you know I'm part of helping as I spend my next 5 years here helping the next group of people build more value and and do that and so I think there's something there and I think the other part is the younger people. I think sometimes I've had clients ask me and that's the challenge because the younger people don't see saving for retirement as a big deal because they want to. You know buy their first house and they want to get their you know their kids into college and all the other stuff that they they have as pressure. But they still have to say for retirement and I think so part of what you're saying is like you got to speak their language, you know in communication and there are 5 different Generations or whatever, there's a lot of different languages happening so how how do you do that I mean that that's probably 1 of the things that you you kind of you have to come to the table with right and and I know we have like 1 client we literally have Spanish and English so you have you know literally a different language there but just the idea of being able to speak across those generational languages is important.

[30:26] Yeah it you know it's so important and coming from the HR space I. Took a huge interest in helping our organization understand you know what some of the generational challenges were um. There there's a really great book called um sticking points it's by Hayden Shaw and it um great plug for. For him and and his book if if you're having any of those challenges as an organization it's a quick read but what I really love about it is it gives you some tangible takeaways on really how to communicate across. Um those different Generations but I would say as a company what we need to do is just have an understanding and to kind of raise awareness that.

[31:07] These are things that as we think about building our Workforce that it's smart for us to say you know people are most valuable asset and if we want to drive Employee Engagement and we want that Employee Engagement to really impact the company's bottom line that we have to devote some time on Bridging the Gap in Generations in the workforce you know how how you do it can be can be different across all companies um but I think you know the place you start is is you create. Kind of a mission um and you become dedicated to to Bridging the Gap and and then you just create initiatives around that so when it comes to the communication piece. Um you know I again I think that younger generation they really like visuals and if we can show them if we can show them evidence that if they start saving in their 20s um what that future value of a dollar could look like. Baked in 10 15 and 20 years you know that's a really powerful message in that graph that just shows. Um you know how they can build some generational wealth and then when we think about the the Aging Workforce Force um in our esap plans especially mature plans there's some diversification rules um more than likely if an employee is age 55 and has 10 years of participation in the plan then you know the company that is obligated to um.

[32:28] Allow those participants to to diversify and. As an ESOP administrator spending time on helping those employees understand the value of diversification. Um it's huge you know um. Is an employee or 2 we can help connect them with financial planning resources that you know don't cost the company anything um but really goes a long way too and helped creating those kind of longer term ESOP ambassadors and and then that. Older Generation Um if they've had a good experience with the company and perhaps maybe they're retiring under the ESOP benefit they then can become mentors and ambassadors for the Next Generation in the workforce. I think that's really solid because it's it's about how do you now and this is kind of where I was going to go now as we talked through a little bit of the specifics.

[33:18] But some of the challenges that you do see that you know are you know you have good company good culture and then you do the ESOP and so you're able to transition into a good culture and then use the ESOP as a tool. To really enhance a good culture, but you're you're it's not going to happen and this is my point it's not going to happen with with some deliberate effort it doesn't happen because well hey we're you know we told them when we're in ESOP so now we're expecting all this to happen the reality is is there's got to be um just like you have a business plan. In a business like where you're going to go after a certain Market you got to have an ESOP plan and so we're going to kind of segue into that what should the ESOP plan look like and I'm going to focus a little bit on the pre esog you know a company that just closed their transaction but but then also we want to pick up that idea with you know maybe an existing company that has been doing this for years. And I would say maybe they have they have a fair level of of of Engagement but it could be better so the first the first area is like practically speaking in that first year and 1 of the things I love about what you do is you're very good at at at organizing.

[34:28] And and putting things in the right timeline so that you know I think people that do this on their own. They can stumble through things because they're like they're working on something that's not necessary yet so so 1 of the things about that is like how do you practically kind of organized somebody around those initiatives to have a very solid ESOP communication plan or ESOP plan in general you know if I kind of turned it that way. Yeah so I think you've heard me talk about. I would love for every company that's an ESOP to have like a 1-page ESOP strategic plan you know and how do we build that we we start by building it by really looking at what the company is already doing in terms of um employee Communications uh business and financial literacy. Um ESOP education and I like to just create these buckets um. Because we have to we have to know where we've been to determine how we're going to move forward and so if we bring you know our Communications team together and we get individuals on that team who can be really good ESOP ambassadors so their employees that you know are in good standing with the company and you know have the right Spirit to be able to Champion the ESOP and then perhaps a few others from across different um departments you know perhaps somebody on the HR employee benefit side somebody from marketing maybe somebody who's in a leadership job or anybody else who can come together um to be part of that team and then.

[35:56] Start Collective you know I call this the collective intelligence piece like really carve out what you're doing every month. Every quarter and annually to drive Employee Engagement you know maybe you're already doing annual training that happens uh you know once a year. Maybe you're doing you know already doing monthly employee Communications so as you look at your already existing initiatives then. That is a committee what we want to do is start having conversations about okay what are the opportunities that we can use the the ESOP.

[36:29] As a business Catalyst like we need this process and we need these employees to be engaged enough to really help impact the business's bottom line and we want employees to understand how their job performance um ties back to company's success and then we also want. Um you know the company to be able to explain to employees umhow their um jobs help the company grow you know and what that looks like so it's kind of this reciprocal messaging that you know we make make sure that we're communicating and once you you know once you kind of do this I I called the data dump once you start bringing these people together and you take a look at what you're doing then you can create your plan you know maybe you set some goals or maybe you realign things um you know we know that the month of October is National employee ownership month and so um perhaps you know you're doing monthly um you're celebrating employee anniversaries once a month maybe you decide to. To change some things around and and celebrate that then in October in honor of of employee ownership month.

[37:38] Well that's that's where it can be a little creative customized like you said before not 1 size fits all their might be I think you what you do really well too is like you figure out the culture and then come up with a plan that fits their culture as opposed to hey we did this for this other company and just do the same thing you know because that personality may be completely different you know and you want to you want to speak to the personality of the company. And not be like this disruption um when you do how much how much time we're going to talk a little bit about the role out but how much do you get when do people get more involved in Employee Engagement like surveys or measuring the impact of the ESOP itself on you know the value or or how people see the value of it.

[38:22] Yeah so you know I would be surprised how many companies are actually doing Employee Engagement surveys so you know I would start there are you or are you not doing a survey and if you're not I think building it into your esap plan over the course of a year, is a really good idea it allows you to you know measure the effort that you've put into employee Communications um and it's a bit as a leader it's a bit of your report card too like you know how how are we doing not just with General things that the company but are are we, putting things in motion that really are making a difference in our employees lives and driving Employee Engagement and then just measuring if employees understand the real value of that esap benefit you know you would be surprised that at how many employees even years after you know being an employee company who just who they don't get it they just don't get it or they may be wanting more specific ESOP education and they don't know how to ask for it so I I'm.

[39:25] A big supporter of Employee Engagement surveys and I think that if you don't have 1 I think making a goal to have 1 in the next year um is a really good opportunity to measure what you've been doing or if you're already doing an employee engagement survey start creating questions around the ESOP engaging if employees understand the benefit of that ESOP um.

[39:49] And asked them to if there's any other programming that you could be offering them.

[39:54] No I think that's that's solid that's probably true for any any company whether they've been an ESOP for 20 years or the first year.

[40:03] When you say well segue into like the mature ESOP companies what do you see typically like a company says hey look we're we're really trying to re-energize our ESOP. Um we've done you know we've done all the some of the stuff in the beginning which was you know really kind of for the roll out meeting and some of the normal things that you see companies do but what do you see as the like.

[40:25] The issues and then some of the opportunities when you see a company that's been a mature ESOP for a while and they're like well we really need to do something we'd like to do something more with this than we haven't done before.

[40:36] Sure so I think the biggest. Problem is that employees or um committee members they just lose their momentum you know they started out really strong and in the first 3 or 4 years they developed some just really great programming it was very effective. Um and it helped move those ESOP initiatives forward but then after 3 or 4 years you know what do you do in year 5 and so when we think about recalibrating those initiatives um you know maybe we start again by taking a look at what you were doing um determining what worked what didn't work that might be you know doing a survey getting feedback from employees that's always a good place to start um read rejuvenating who your your team members are you know so bringing in uh fresh eyes on your esap committee is always helpful when when we offer. The opportunity for new people to be part of that they tend to bring new ideas um or different perspectives to the table that can be really helpful so as we think about that esap Communications team being a partner to the company um again as our Workforce changes especially since 2022 when so many company needs were also struggling with hiring and retaining employees um. It looked a lot the landscape looked so different and so you know our ESOP.

[41:59] Committee really created a lot of initiatives around onboarding and recruiting at that time too and so when we think about you know how do we um kind of recalibrate what we're doing we have to really challenge ourselves to think outside the box every few years uh based on the the changes maybe in our environment and our communities and also the landscape of the business. I think that's a good point and I think that's partly I think sometimes people just need an independent person coming in to help them with.

[42:30] Fresh ideas and fresh strategies and and just kind of a sounding board too so I think that's another role that you can that you can play but I do think that. It's hard it's hard to keep the same level of energy towards something um in in every in any company whether whatever whatever the cultural movement is with an ESOP it's no different but I do believe there's a big benefit out of that that can if you do re-energize um that you can really get back to the like the core um intention of what the ESOP really can do for for the company and really build build more value in that regard as well.

[43:06] So so those are really good um things to think about we're pretty much running out of time at this point I wanted to kind of finish with. Just this idea that you know there are there is a lot of of um.

[43:18] Opportunity here to help companies get to like whether they're just starting out as a new ESOP company or they're going to re-enter energize their ESOP um just in general I guess I wanted to kind of finish with the idea that. This is um.

[43:33] I would say this is an area of the ESOP world that's not fully mature in a sense there's not a ton I would say there's not a ton of people like Diana that do what you do. Um and so just kind of as I say that's a comment but it's also kind of a. You know what are your thoughts around that because it is it's important it's just not something I see a lot of companies you know coming to the table with but it's a need that we definitely see in the marketplace.

[43:59] You know my my comment first and foremost is I am a product of employee ownership and it really is a privilege to be able to use those skills um post uh you know.

[44:13] Party party ways with with my previous company only because it had gone through an acquisition and so when I think about you know the future and what we can do as an ESOP community is really to provide layers of support from individuals who have experienced who kind of been there done that. And I would coin myself as an ESOP generalist you know I've been through the the full transaction phase I I owned. The communication part the administrative pieces and helped support or really successful company. Through Employee Engagement initiatives and so I think as a community. Um you know don't hesitate to tap into resources um we can oftentimes offer a lot of just best practices and um good examples of things that went really well for us as well as things that didn't so you know just everyday experience is is so valuable in helping others through through their journey and Beyond. And I'm happy to be here so thank you for having me today yeah thank you for for joining I hope it was helpful for everybody as you look at this and maybe. Experts some ideas or thoughts that you you know. Will help you kind of build that into your ESOP plan and however you go about you know resources around that we just want to make sure we're.

[45:26] Kind of pointing to things that will be helpful and things that we do see as as a do as a need in the in the ESOP world so again thanks Diana joining today.

[45:37] Thank you all right for everybody else have a great day and we will see you on our next step on this journey to an ESOP thank you.